Thanks for doing a bang up job reprising the findings of the 9/11 truth movement.
Folks like Buzz... ignore the basics of physics... on display here.... ignore that building 7 was "pulled" live on TV... Ie: pancaked via properly placed explosives
Ignore that jet fuel does not create sufficiently high temps necessary to weaken the steel structure sufficiently to create the observed collapse.. nor contains sufficient energy to destroy the cladding as observed...
Folks like Buzz..... don't have the moxie to propose an alternate example which meets their criteria.. because they are STUPID.... IGNORANT... DUMB...
Roger, did you try to watch "ZERO" after you posted the link to YouTube? LOL it gives you the violent content warning and asks you to click to proceed. Then it just puts the typical violent content message on the screen and won't play at all. Speaking of the censorship, eh?
Yes, just checked again. If you click on "watch on youtube" it goes to youtube with the same warning, but then if you press "I understand and wish to proceed" it plays. Does for me anyway. Youtube is constantly censoring, demonetizing and generally downplaying content that upsets the oligarchic narrative. Its called "fake free speech" just like fake liberalism and a fake free press.
"...Folks like Buzz..... don't have the moxie to propose an alternate example which meets their criteria.. because they are STUPID.... IGNORANT... DUMB....."
I'm with Buzz here. If only because he recognises that it is not such a big deal. The ruling class has controlled culture, including the media and the Academy, for a long time. Anyone who had to wait until 9/11 to realise that the Establishment lies and lies and the truth is hidden by the media was naive.
The problem with the 9/11 conspiracy theories is that they begin by denying agency to the weak, the poor, the angry arabs. They assume that only the omnipotent Empire and its agents, the cunning Israelis, have the brains, the courage and the resources to bring down or cause the demolition of massive office towers.
The truth is very different, as people have been learning in the past twenty odd years: worms do turn, Afghan sheep herders, like the Vietnamese padi cultivators before them, and Somali guerrillas and Iraqis with IEDs can take on Empires and bring them down. Maybe they didn't get the memo telling them that the White Man was too poweful to fight, or maybe they just laughed at it. The poor are inheriting the earth and I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that. somehow, it was a tiny group of brave, thoroughly reconcileded to martyrdom, Arabs who brought about the destruction, first of the Twin Towers and, in the long, unfolding political aftermath (in which successive US governments, enthusiastically followed by their comprador fan clubs, have made one mistake after another because they have believed that they were omnipotent).
I don't know the truth about how 9/11 unfolded. About the detail I don't really care but I understand now the plot, just as I did 23 years ago when I heard about it on the car radio: after years of arrogant provocations, informed by a racist confidence that they ruled the world and always would do, the US got a punch on the nose right where it hurt most, in the centre of New York city, and ever since it has been in rapid decline.
It seems to me that most of these theories that add up to the idea that only the US ruling class had the power and ingenuity to carry out the 9/11 actions obscure the great underlying reality of the human race which is that all men are equal and that no conceit of superiority can protect our deluded masters from the anger or those that, however poor, uneducated or weak they might appear to be, prefer death to dishonour.
You're applying the same maximalist argument to the downtrodden that you accuse "conspiracy theorists" of applying to the completely ridiculous hole-ridden official story about 9/11. You are also projecting a false viewpoint on many when you allude to the supposed inherent belief here in the west in the omnipotence of western ruling cabals, their intelligence services and militaries - and the supposed incompetence, cluelessness, and powerlessness of would-be rebels in the face of such an omnipotent system and the "better" way of life and thinking it attempts to foist on the RotW.
Nobody reading this blog of sufficient age was ever under the delusion that the ruling class hasn't always controlled the media and the messaging; the narrative. That government and capitalist class lies suddenly began in 2001. And while I cannot speak for everyone, I would assume that most of us who question the official accounts are in no way denying agency - intentionally or otherwise - to the swaths of subjugated humanity from which the alleged perpetrators emerged.
Frankly, you're swallowing the official story hook, line and sinker whilst pushing a 'social justice' or 'justice and karma' (worm turns) narrative of your own.
When utilized in the manner such as you do, this: "Somali guerrillas and Iraqis with IEDs can take on Empires and bring them down." is a fallacy of the 'logical extreme' or reductio-ad-absurdum argumentation. The Empire may be teetering after years of poor decisions, greed, hypocrisy and hubris - and the Empire's exploratory/invasion armies have definitely been repulsed over time periods spanning a few years to a few decades, but the Empire has not been taken down, let alone by the actors referenced in your statement. If anything, you're describing the many pin pricks, all over the body of Empire, over many years, that are contributing greatly to the fall. However that, and related arguments pertaining to Israel Palestine miss the illness for the symptoms, even though I'm certain that you wouldn't miss it in most other contexts.
"It seems to me that most of these theories that add up to the idea that only the US ruling class had the power and ingenuity to carry out the 9/11 actions obscure the great underlying reality of the human race which is that all men are equal and that no conceit of superiority can protect our deluded masters from the anger or those that, however poor, uneducated or weak they might appear to be, prefer death to dishonour."
This flattens and simplifies the reality of the attacks beyond usefulness. No one actor or coordinated groups of actors, whether in an 'official' or unofficial capacity, or whether with intent or by accident, necessarily has to get "credit" for pulling off the attacks on 9/11 (or October 7). What led to the "success" of the planes ultimately crashing into the towers, a field in Pennsylvania and the Pentagon, if you believe that part of it, was an incredibly complex series of decisions and events: mistakes, successes, partial mistakes and partial successes.
At the end of the day, and not bothering to elaborate on the many actions including legislation, surveillance, war crimes un-punished, and the clamping down on everyday people in the west and around the globe which sprung forth with staggering predictability and aggression, what we have is a cascade of snow job "official inquiries" into what really happened leading up to 9/11 and the attacks themselves. If in fact it was just some justifiably angry and rebellious Muslims that astoundingly pulled off the attacks in 2001, the types of lies, accusations, censorship and thought policing would not have been necessary.
If one honestly doesn't believe that 9/11 could only have been perpetrated in a manner far outside of what the official narrative says, then they are guilty of one or two things. One of them is, in my mind, totally understandable and more useful in a lot of ways: A turnabout on a common saying which is focusing on the forest and ignoring the trees. The system is and has always been under the control of our capitalist oppressors; we understand that. 9/11 was, thus, not necessary for most thinking people to wake up to that fact.
The other is a veiled scolding of people who don't rise to one's preferred level of ideological, justiciable and intellectual purity because we miss the forest for the trees. There is no inherent orientalism or western supremacist thinking at work when I look at the whole of available evidence and the historical record when considering the almost totally unprecedented Hollywood disaster movie quality of the 9/11 attacks and the blatant lies, coverups and logical incongruities we're expected to accept in order to square the official story with the more likely stories.
That glass, ball and pig model has little similarity to the trade tower configuration. You would need a glass with a beam modulus scaled to the tower floor strength plus the ball or pig on every floor, a starting condition that takes into account the sheer strength at the ends of the beam…etc.
Poor analogy in my opinion . The conspiracy is not the tower, it’s the fuckery that we can not see. The obsession with the towers is intended misdirection. My opinion.
It shows basic physics, loss of momentum unless each level is removed before the glass ball gets to it. The ball is actually much more concentrated than a floor, imagine if just one of the pieces of glass was dropped on the others.
The fact that this obvious breach of basic physics is hidden in plain sight and not questioned says a huge amount about the power of the media and state to blatantly lie and get away with it. Never mind the pyroclastic cloud (where's the energy source?), furniture etc. pulverized to dust (where's the energy source?) and steel beams sliced cleanly into pieces (where's the energy source?), and building 7 being pulled.
The smoke (free-fall collapse, building 7, no proof of plane hitting the Pentagon etc.) points to the fire (fuckery) below. We will never know the truth of the fuckery below, but we do know that it exists.
I read an engineering analysis of building 7 somewhere long before the *one* that started all the questions. It seemed plausible to me. But its source was official and from within the government system. I make stuff….from metal, wood, plastics…whatever. I have built public infrastructure, many homes, race cars, airplanes, bicycles…even devices that incorporated complex electronics with quantum switching devices(transistors)…...many things one might imagine at macro scales. I’m familiar with the physical properties of many materials all the way to the complex logistics of actually dreaming up and manifesting a complex machine or system. There is no way to reverse engineer the trade tower collapses …irreversible in time. We can only conjecture. The events we ‘observed’ on 9-11 were so insanely complex with so many variables, pieces and parts that had to be synchronized in time that in my view what we saw was a completely novel moment in time. Never to be seen again, a moment in time that changed the trajectory of our culture and civilization. An emergent phenomenon that defied causality and determinism. To me it is not a question of “what” happened but “why” it happened. I don’t think it’s that hard to figure out the answer to that question. The blood is on the hands of the many who do not see the supply chain connection and global economic dynamic that Roger often speaks of. Blowback with a bit of look the other way sponsorship from the MIC. Something like that. I had a friend now deceased, we had a vibrant and ongoing dialogue ( not a dialectic!) about all this stuff for years. He was a telephone lineman in Iraq after the war. He never admitted but I’m pretty sure he worked for CIA or military intelligence. One time I was in one of my imaginative conspiracy moods and he said to me, “ …..there is no way you can get all the people accused of a conspiracy on the same agenda, the will to power is in every man, human nature defies consensus….”. I would add that today no street level agent is ever going to do very much to question the long causal chain that ‘butters his or her bread’. Too much to do and feel and consume….and on and on. Just my ideas. 🙏
WTC-7 fell at literal free fall speed with zero actual official explanation. No planes. No verifiable fires. No verifiable explosions or structural failures. Because they can't. It's nonsense. 7 was imploded. Period. Look at a video of the building falling starting with the penthouse/roof level and tell me you don't bust out laughing - especially given your own hands-on and intellectual experience building structures. The official/mainstream narrative? It's insulting. Alaska Fairbanks may be the study you referenced but it's time to review it again if you still think that building fell down on its own due to unspecified and unquantified damage from the other buildings falling within an hour or two of real plane strikes. It absolutely didn't. It's the "magic bullet" of the 9/11 conspiracy.
At the end of the day, if the "official" investigations, including "engineering" ones are held up as facts, we've learned NOTHING to benefit public safety, building codes, structural analysis, fire proofing...nothing. NADA.
That’s all fine but it still gives no answer as to why. How does the WTC-7 collapse add to what ever the overall intent was? I’m all ears. Was there something important in the building? Just a demonstration to show us that *they* are powerful? I don’t get these references to “free fall speed”. Everything falls at the acceleration of the gravity( 9.8 m/s² (32.17 ft/s²) it is subject to, less the drag of the fluid, air in this case, they fall in. Don’t see that as corroborating evidence….?
Things only fall at free fall speed if not obstructed, i.e. don't have to overcome the resistance of floors below them and steel columns etc. That's what a controlled demolition accomplishes by taking out the supporting columns and then floors in a very specific sequence.
WTC 7 contained the offices of the SEC and huge amounts of evidence that it had gathered. It also contained Secret Service and CIA offices with troves of documents. The building was also full of asbestos that would have been incredibly expensive to remove (as were the Twin Towers).
Of course but they fall at free fall speed *until* they are obstructed. The amount of material involved in those events was not homogeneous. There is never “no resistance”. I also question how in the hell you could precisely install all the placed charges, wiring and trip mechanism and not have somebody notice? Tremendous amount of work taking place unnoticed in a busy furnished office? And access to all the columns and beams that are embedded behind the interior finish surface of a building??? How did they do that? Night time security guards had to be in on it. No matter, I doubt I can convince you to question your belief and not trying to. Seems to me that in typical criminal investigation when factual evidence is lacking then motive moves to the top of the list. I personally think the story from the flight simulator school is of far greater importance than quibbling over the mechanics of the collapses.
"...10 of the 25 founding members of PNAC serving in the Bush administration..."
And even more than 10 of them being Israel-firsters and/or Zionist supremacists.
Thanks for doing a bang up job reprising the findings of the 9/11 truth movement.
Folks like Buzz... ignore the basics of physics... on display here.... ignore that building 7 was "pulled" live on TV... Ie: pancaked via properly placed explosives
Ignore that jet fuel does not create sufficiently high temps necessary to weaken the steel structure sufficiently to create the observed collapse.. nor contains sufficient energy to destroy the cladding as observed...
Folks like Buzz..... don't have the moxie to propose an alternate example which meets their criteria.. because they are STUPID.... IGNORANT... DUMB...
INDY
Roger, did you try to watch "ZERO" after you posted the link to YouTube? LOL it gives you the violent content warning and asks you to click to proceed. Then it just puts the typical violent content message on the screen and won't play at all. Speaking of the censorship, eh?
Here it is on Rumble: https://rumble.com/v4uqhut-zero-full-original-movie-2013-investigation-into-911..html
Yes, just checked again. If you click on "watch on youtube" it goes to youtube with the same warning, but then if you press "I understand and wish to proceed" it plays. Does for me anyway. Youtube is constantly censoring, demonetizing and generally downplaying content that upsets the oligarchic narrative. Its called "fake free speech" just like fake liberalism and a fake free press.
Won't play for me on YouTube at all.
"...Folks like Buzz..... don't have the moxie to propose an alternate example which meets their criteria.. because they are STUPID.... IGNORANT... DUMB....."
I'm with Buzz here. If only because he recognises that it is not such a big deal. The ruling class has controlled culture, including the media and the Academy, for a long time. Anyone who had to wait until 9/11 to realise that the Establishment lies and lies and the truth is hidden by the media was naive.
The problem with the 9/11 conspiracy theories is that they begin by denying agency to the weak, the poor, the angry arabs. They assume that only the omnipotent Empire and its agents, the cunning Israelis, have the brains, the courage and the resources to bring down or cause the demolition of massive office towers.
The truth is very different, as people have been learning in the past twenty odd years: worms do turn, Afghan sheep herders, like the Vietnamese padi cultivators before them, and Somali guerrillas and Iraqis with IEDs can take on Empires and bring them down. Maybe they didn't get the memo telling them that the White Man was too poweful to fight, or maybe they just laughed at it. The poor are inheriting the earth and I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that. somehow, it was a tiny group of brave, thoroughly reconcileded to martyrdom, Arabs who brought about the destruction, first of the Twin Towers and, in the long, unfolding political aftermath (in which successive US governments, enthusiastically followed by their comprador fan clubs, have made one mistake after another because they have believed that they were omnipotent).
I don't know the truth about how 9/11 unfolded. About the detail I don't really care but I understand now the plot, just as I did 23 years ago when I heard about it on the car radio: after years of arrogant provocations, informed by a racist confidence that they ruled the world and always would do, the US got a punch on the nose right where it hurt most, in the centre of New York city, and ever since it has been in rapid decline.
It seems to me that most of these theories that add up to the idea that only the US ruling class had the power and ingenuity to carry out the 9/11 actions obscure the great underlying reality of the human race which is that all men are equal and that no conceit of superiority can protect our deluded masters from the anger or those that, however poor, uneducated or weak they might appear to be, prefer death to dishonour.
You're applying the same maximalist argument to the downtrodden that you accuse "conspiracy theorists" of applying to the completely ridiculous hole-ridden official story about 9/11. You are also projecting a false viewpoint on many when you allude to the supposed inherent belief here in the west in the omnipotence of western ruling cabals, their intelligence services and militaries - and the supposed incompetence, cluelessness, and powerlessness of would-be rebels in the face of such an omnipotent system and the "better" way of life and thinking it attempts to foist on the RotW.
Nobody reading this blog of sufficient age was ever under the delusion that the ruling class hasn't always controlled the media and the messaging; the narrative. That government and capitalist class lies suddenly began in 2001. And while I cannot speak for everyone, I would assume that most of us who question the official accounts are in no way denying agency - intentionally or otherwise - to the swaths of subjugated humanity from which the alleged perpetrators emerged.
Frankly, you're swallowing the official story hook, line and sinker whilst pushing a 'social justice' or 'justice and karma' (worm turns) narrative of your own.
When utilized in the manner such as you do, this: "Somali guerrillas and Iraqis with IEDs can take on Empires and bring them down." is a fallacy of the 'logical extreme' or reductio-ad-absurdum argumentation. The Empire may be teetering after years of poor decisions, greed, hypocrisy and hubris - and the Empire's exploratory/invasion armies have definitely been repulsed over time periods spanning a few years to a few decades, but the Empire has not been taken down, let alone by the actors referenced in your statement. If anything, you're describing the many pin pricks, all over the body of Empire, over many years, that are contributing greatly to the fall. However that, and related arguments pertaining to Israel Palestine miss the illness for the symptoms, even though I'm certain that you wouldn't miss it in most other contexts.
"It seems to me that most of these theories that add up to the idea that only the US ruling class had the power and ingenuity to carry out the 9/11 actions obscure the great underlying reality of the human race which is that all men are equal and that no conceit of superiority can protect our deluded masters from the anger or those that, however poor, uneducated or weak they might appear to be, prefer death to dishonour."
This flattens and simplifies the reality of the attacks beyond usefulness. No one actor or coordinated groups of actors, whether in an 'official' or unofficial capacity, or whether with intent or by accident, necessarily has to get "credit" for pulling off the attacks on 9/11 (or October 7). What led to the "success" of the planes ultimately crashing into the towers, a field in Pennsylvania and the Pentagon, if you believe that part of it, was an incredibly complex series of decisions and events: mistakes, successes, partial mistakes and partial successes.
At the end of the day, and not bothering to elaborate on the many actions including legislation, surveillance, war crimes un-punished, and the clamping down on everyday people in the west and around the globe which sprung forth with staggering predictability and aggression, what we have is a cascade of snow job "official inquiries" into what really happened leading up to 9/11 and the attacks themselves. If in fact it was just some justifiably angry and rebellious Muslims that astoundingly pulled off the attacks in 2001, the types of lies, accusations, censorship and thought policing would not have been necessary.
If one honestly doesn't believe that 9/11 could only have been perpetrated in a manner far outside of what the official narrative says, then they are guilty of one or two things. One of them is, in my mind, totally understandable and more useful in a lot of ways: A turnabout on a common saying which is focusing on the forest and ignoring the trees. The system is and has always been under the control of our capitalist oppressors; we understand that. 9/11 was, thus, not necessary for most thinking people to wake up to that fact.
The other is a veiled scolding of people who don't rise to one's preferred level of ideological, justiciable and intellectual purity because we miss the forest for the trees. There is no inherent orientalism or western supremacist thinking at work when I look at the whole of available evidence and the historical record when considering the almost totally unprecedented Hollywood disaster movie quality of the 9/11 attacks and the blatant lies, coverups and logical incongruities we're expected to accept in order to square the official story with the more likely stories.
That glass, ball and pig model has little similarity to the trade tower configuration. You would need a glass with a beam modulus scaled to the tower floor strength plus the ball or pig on every floor, a starting condition that takes into account the sheer strength at the ends of the beam…etc.
Poor analogy in my opinion . The conspiracy is not the tower, it’s the fuckery that we can not see. The obsession with the towers is intended misdirection. My opinion.
It shows basic physics, loss of momentum unless each level is removed before the glass ball gets to it. The ball is actually much more concentrated than a floor, imagine if just one of the pieces of glass was dropped on the others.
The fact that this obvious breach of basic physics is hidden in plain sight and not questioned says a huge amount about the power of the media and state to blatantly lie and get away with it. Never mind the pyroclastic cloud (where's the energy source?), furniture etc. pulverized to dust (where's the energy source?) and steel beams sliced cleanly into pieces (where's the energy source?), and building 7 being pulled.
The smoke (free-fall collapse, building 7, no proof of plane hitting the Pentagon etc.) points to the fire (fuckery) below. We will never know the truth of the fuckery below, but we do know that it exists.
Obsession with the main towers does rely on quite a few conspiratorial assumptions. So how about WTC-7?
I read an engineering analysis of building 7 somewhere long before the *one* that started all the questions. It seemed plausible to me. But its source was official and from within the government system. I make stuff….from metal, wood, plastics…whatever. I have built public infrastructure, many homes, race cars, airplanes, bicycles…even devices that incorporated complex electronics with quantum switching devices(transistors)…...many things one might imagine at macro scales. I’m familiar with the physical properties of many materials all the way to the complex logistics of actually dreaming up and manifesting a complex machine or system. There is no way to reverse engineer the trade tower collapses …irreversible in time. We can only conjecture. The events we ‘observed’ on 9-11 were so insanely complex with so many variables, pieces and parts that had to be synchronized in time that in my view what we saw was a completely novel moment in time. Never to be seen again, a moment in time that changed the trajectory of our culture and civilization. An emergent phenomenon that defied causality and determinism. To me it is not a question of “what” happened but “why” it happened. I don’t think it’s that hard to figure out the answer to that question. The blood is on the hands of the many who do not see the supply chain connection and global economic dynamic that Roger often speaks of. Blowback with a bit of look the other way sponsorship from the MIC. Something like that. I had a friend now deceased, we had a vibrant and ongoing dialogue ( not a dialectic!) about all this stuff for years. He was a telephone lineman in Iraq after the war. He never admitted but I’m pretty sure he worked for CIA or military intelligence. One time I was in one of my imaginative conspiracy moods and he said to me, “ …..there is no way you can get all the people accused of a conspiracy on the same agenda, the will to power is in every man, human nature defies consensus….”. I would add that today no street level agent is ever going to do very much to question the long causal chain that ‘butters his or her bread’. Too much to do and feel and consume….and on and on. Just my ideas. 🙏
WTC-7 fell at literal free fall speed with zero actual official explanation. No planes. No verifiable fires. No verifiable explosions or structural failures. Because they can't. It's nonsense. 7 was imploded. Period. Look at a video of the building falling starting with the penthouse/roof level and tell me you don't bust out laughing - especially given your own hands-on and intellectual experience building structures. The official/mainstream narrative? It's insulting. Alaska Fairbanks may be the study you referenced but it's time to review it again if you still think that building fell down on its own due to unspecified and unquantified damage from the other buildings falling within an hour or two of real plane strikes. It absolutely didn't. It's the "magic bullet" of the 9/11 conspiracy.
At the end of the day, if the "official" investigations, including "engineering" ones are held up as facts, we've learned NOTHING to benefit public safety, building codes, structural analysis, fire proofing...nothing. NADA.
WTC-7 was an inside job. Period.
That’s all fine but it still gives no answer as to why. How does the WTC-7 collapse add to what ever the overall intent was? I’m all ears. Was there something important in the building? Just a demonstration to show us that *they* are powerful? I don’t get these references to “free fall speed”. Everything falls at the acceleration of the gravity( 9.8 m/s² (32.17 ft/s²) it is subject to, less the drag of the fluid, air in this case, they fall in. Don’t see that as corroborating evidence….?
Things only fall at free fall speed if not obstructed, i.e. don't have to overcome the resistance of floors below them and steel columns etc. That's what a controlled demolition accomplishes by taking out the supporting columns and then floors in a very specific sequence.
WTC 7 contained the offices of the SEC and huge amounts of evidence that it had gathered. It also contained Secret Service and CIA offices with troves of documents. The building was also full of asbestos that would have been incredibly expensive to remove (as were the Twin Towers).
Of course but they fall at free fall speed *until* they are obstructed. The amount of material involved in those events was not homogeneous. There is never “no resistance”. I also question how in the hell you could precisely install all the placed charges, wiring and trip mechanism and not have somebody notice? Tremendous amount of work taking place unnoticed in a busy furnished office? And access to all the columns and beams that are embedded behind the interior finish surface of a building??? How did they do that? Night time security guards had to be in on it. No matter, I doubt I can convince you to question your belief and not trying to. Seems to me that in typical criminal investigation when factual evidence is lacking then motive moves to the top of the list. I personally think the story from the flight simulator school is of far greater importance than quibbling over the mechanics of the collapses.